Comments on: Post-Election Subjects http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/2008/post-election-subjects/ Promoting and Discussing Patriotism and Liberty Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:41:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: David http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/2008/post-election-subjects/comment-page-1/#comment-12035 David Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:06:32 +0000 http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/?p=1414#comment-12035 I fully agree that voter apathy is a huge problem. Like Jesse said, term limits are addressing a symptom rather than the underlying disease. Voter apathy is such a huge problem that I can't even begin to tackle it. It is possible that term limits could either discourage voter apathy (I can hope) or at least help to compensate for it in some small way. (As I recall, in the discussion last year you also argued that term limits were not the problem - I think I agreed with you then too.) I fully agree that voter apathy is a huge problem. Like Jesse said, term limits are addressing a symptom rather than the underlying disease. Voter apathy is such a huge problem that I can’t even begin to tackle it. It is possible that term limits could either discourage voter apathy (I can hope) or at least help to compensate for it in some small way.

(As I recall, in the discussion last year you also argued that term limits were not the problem – I think I agreed with you then too.)

]]> By: Obi wan liberali http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/2008/post-election-subjects/comment-page-1/#comment-12034 Obi wan liberali Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:35:33 +0000 http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/?p=1414#comment-12034 Nice post David. My position is that term limits isn't the problem, but voter ignorance and apathy is. As an informal poll, I've asked my fellow bus riders who their elected officials are. Most of them vote, and they don't know what the role is of their elected officials, who their officials are, nor do they know what they do and whether they are effective or not. That is why monumental dingbats such as Buttars, Bramble, Stephensen, and Kilpack can get elected to their senate seata without anyone asking "what have they done." Nice post David.

My position is that term limits isn’t the problem, but voter ignorance and apathy is.

As an informal poll, I’ve asked my fellow bus riders who their elected officials are. Most of them vote, and they don’t know what the role is of their elected officials, who their officials are, nor do they know what they do and whether they are effective or not.

That is why monumental dingbats such as Buttars, Bramble, Stephensen, and Kilpack can get elected to their senate seata without anyone asking “what have they done.”

]]> By: David http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/2008/post-election-subjects/comment-page-1/#comment-12032 David Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:57:46 +0000 http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/?p=1414#comment-12032 That's interesting - the term limits in Nevada should not have had an impact yet - their term limits are structured as a lifetime ban after 12 years and the first 12 year increment is supposed to be completed and have an impact in 2010. (Maybe the information I have is not accurate.) As for the issue of addressing a symptom rather than the cause, I agree that the cause is entrenched power within parties and that this treats the symptom, but sometimes treating the symptoms is the best approach to curing the disease. In fact, forcing turnover through an effective term limit law can potentially shake up the power structures and loosen the hold of entrenched interests. That’s interesting – the term limits in Nevada should not have had an impact yet – their term limits are structured as a lifetime ban after 12 years and the first 12 year increment is supposed to be completed and have an impact in 2010. (Maybe the information I have is not accurate.)

As for the issue of addressing a symptom rather than the cause, I agree that the cause is entrenched power within parties and that this treats the symptom, but sometimes treating the symptoms is the best approach to curing the disease. In fact, forcing turnover through an effective term limit law can potentially shake up the power structures and loosen the hold of entrenched interests.

]]> By: Jesse Harris http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/2008/post-election-subjects/comment-page-1/#comment-12031 Jesse Harris Tue, 11 Nov 2008 22:51:24 +0000 http://www.Pursuit-of-Liberty.com/?p=1414#comment-12031 Term limits attempt to treat a symptom rather than a cause. The symptom (heavily entrenched incumbents) does nothing to address what causes them to be entrenched. Corrupt party machinery constantly works to ensure that challenges to incumbents from one's own party rarely stand a chance unless the incumbent has lost favor with the party leadership. Combine that with large financial interests hedging their bets with the incumbent and heavy gerrymandering in many states and you end up with candidates who are more-or-less anointed to rule by a select few party insiders. I watched term limits get enacted in Nevada for all state offices. The only effect it had was forcing them to jump from office to office. Same players, different roles. It was hardly an improvement. Term limits attempt to treat a symptom rather than a cause. The symptom (heavily entrenched incumbents) does nothing to address what causes them to be entrenched. Corrupt party machinery constantly works to ensure that challenges to incumbents from one’s own party rarely stand a chance unless the incumbent has lost favor with the party leadership. Combine that with large financial interests hedging their bets with the incumbent and heavy gerrymandering in many states and you end up with candidates who are more-or-less anointed to rule by a select few party insiders.

I watched term limits get enacted in Nevada for all state offices. The only effect it had was forcing them to jump from office to office. Same players, different roles. It was hardly an improvement.

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